Balloon Chat

Uncategorized Boards => Balloon Chit Chat => Topic started by: Graham Lee on December 05, 2008, 01:36:40 PM

Title: "Members Only" area
Post by: Graham Lee on December 05, 2008, 01:36:40 PM
Everyone is welcome into the members only "Club Zone" all we ask is that you do a little write up
about yourself on how you started twisting/entertaining;
http://www.balloonchat.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=31 (http://www.balloonchat.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=31)

I've been asked to put up a members only area on the forum where things to discuss could be about money, balloon instructions & possibly, the Richard & Judy thread etc.
So have worked out how to do this, the other suggestion was to let members with more than say fifty posts join if they wish. Again it will be completely free. So any thoughts on what from the open forum we have perhaps that should be moved into it & any other suggestions or idea's that you think about this either good or bad. As I keep saying it's our forum so what would you like to happen with it.
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Billy Wiz on December 05, 2008, 01:46:09 PM
I think thats a great idea Graham. It would be good to talk about the business side of what we do as well. If anyone is interested, they'll have to join the discussions on the forum first to have access.

If you look at the members list, there are more than two thirds who haven't even posted yet. It's a bit unfair that they like to read and take ideas from others on here but choose not to add any imput themselves. It makes no difference if you are advanced or a beginner, everyone has ideas that could benefit others.

I'll get off my soapbox now  :evil:  ;)
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Smiggle on December 05, 2008, 01:57:43 PM
Good idea Graham - certainly items with detailed instructions should be there - I have no quarrel with business info either
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Petra on December 05, 2008, 02:59:48 PM
I like the idea of the closed area, like Greame said, there are a lot of non posters (Graham can you see if they are visiting the forum a lot?)
I think if you only let the people in who made 50 post,..won't you get a lot off nonsense posts?
And 50 is a lot then....

But those are my first thoughts, have to think about that to come with other ideas.

Petra
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Krazy Kev on December 05, 2008, 03:00:19 PM
Most deffo!
Without going into it too much Graham but what if people were to spend time just replying to threads with ok or hello or great just to build up their posts, if you see what I mean.
Great idea though.
Kev
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Krazy Kev on December 05, 2008, 03:01:18 PM
You just beat me to that Petra by a minute!!!
Great minds and all that....
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: fairby on December 05, 2008, 03:24:03 PM
Great Idea, like the idea of more exclusivity ( Graham is there a spell checker as well)  8-)
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Lord Geoffrey on December 05, 2008, 03:26:58 PM
All for it.
How will one login to it? Will we have too have another user name and password?

Mind you I must admit I do a lot of looking at the forum without login in.
So even though I don't post a lot might I be penalised.

I only post if I think I have something worth saying or someone who has posted something that I thinks needs a response. Sorry but I'm not for wishing everyone who signs up to the forum welcome and happy birthday etc.
As already pointed out most people who sign up haven't even posted. Take out all the welcome post and I think a lot of people who have a high number of posts will drop considerably.
All that said, I am still for an area where one can get expert help and advice.
No disrespect to our face painter friends but this is a balloon forum for balloon people. I would like an area for us.
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: YvonneH on December 05, 2008, 04:01:02 PM
Not sure what you mean by the last part of your post Geoffrey about face painters.  The normal idea of a members only area is so that only members can view certain areas and just because someone is a face painter too doesn't mean that they can't be a twister too.  I am both and although I am a novice twister does that mean I should be excluded?  I mean at no point have I posted pictures of my other love and have only mentioned it where I am able to contribute to a discussion but the only experience I have is in that line of business.

I too don't bother with welcomes or happy birthdays and feel that a high number of posts to qualify would be a bad thing.  Maybe a lower number of posts would be better as it means that only those who actually contribute to the site benefit iyswim?
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Danny the Idiot on December 05, 2008, 04:39:37 PM
I think a members area would be useful for the forum. I would like to suggest an alternative to 50 posts and your in.

It is this - a password protected area.
Tt would do away with 50 nonsense posts. Guests who give interviews can have it and it could be changed regularly to stop the password being emailed around.
I don't know how this would work in practise and it may be a lot of extra work for Graham.

What do people think?

Danny  :)
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Graham Lee on December 05, 2008, 05:16:26 PM
I may need to ask the advise of someone more technical than me on how to do some of the things suggested like the extra password etc
But I can alter easily the "users forum permissions" which lets you view different aspects of the forum. I tried this out earlier with a guinea pig & it seemed to work OK.

I agree the 50 posts thing could be abused with very short irrelivent posts so how about making it by invite only & we all as a group decide who we let in or dont as the case may be.
Straight away the problem will be on who the first group are ;)  but we have to start somewhere.
Spell checker would be great, when we we trying some forums out at the beginning one or two did have spell checker but perhaps we can put this on as well.
If only we knew someone that was an expert on forum set ups :D
Wim, where are you
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Graham Lee on December 05, 2008, 05:41:26 PM
Sometimes I even surprise myself with this technology :lol:
I think I've created a members only area that is password activated.
It hopefully should be the third forum down, if you all can see it?

We will have to rename this section, any suggestions.

How about "The Chosen Few" :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Roger on December 05, 2008, 05:42:34 PM
There is an easy way around the 50 nonsense posts that is you set it up so that you can request access after 50 posts (I do feel 50 is a lot may be 30) and it may be an idea that if you don't post after you get in to the restricted area you are removed after so many months'.

 The other thing is to be careful that not all posts are in the restricted area so there is nothing for new people to reply to and thus get into the restricted area.

Graham would also have the ability to invite people like Patrick into the area who do not post a lot but would be a real enhancement to the site.

Can we please call is 51 I have always wanted to get in to area 51  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Krazy Kev on December 05, 2008, 06:16:23 PM
Fancy caliing him a pig Graham! Mind you, might have to agree with you.
Kev
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: cashmagic on December 05, 2008, 07:02:36 PM
sound a great idea all we need now is a chat room
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Fuzzy on December 05, 2008, 07:13:27 PM
Sounds a good idea to me.

Wouldn't worry too much about getting looky loos/time wasters, they will always stand out so just kick them out.

Fuzz
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: lollypopandpatch on December 05, 2008, 08:39:10 PM
This is clearly a subject you all feel strongly about and while i can understand it to a degree there are some people like myself who do not post much due to being seriously shy / nervous voicing opinions around people I feel are much more qualified than I.  As you will have seen at the last care and share day I don't say much (hence my silent character in our shows) but i do enjoy the balloons and have moments of inspiration and am willing to listen and learn.

just another point of view
Sharon
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Graham Lee on December 05, 2008, 09:03:26 PM
Sharon,
I dont think its a case of excluding people more that we can talk about the whole industry without worrying about prying eyes.
Having said that who'd want to view all that we post on the good old latex. Mind you there are some very sad people about :lol:

We could put a password on the whole forum so that only members can see our posts?

It would be good to find a way of encouraging everyone to join in as if we all just viewed we'd all be looking at empty pages ;)
I've learnt lots of things from people that have been twisting for years & plenty from those that have just started out. We all seem to come together from various ways & all have different experiences to share with each other.
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: lollypopandpatch on December 05, 2008, 09:28:50 PM
Graham

Please dont get me wrong I have learnt SO much from the people on this forum and I appreciate it totally and it was incredibly flattering that other's with more experience made the santa hat and posted their pictures.  

I just seem to get tongue tied when it comes to posting my opinion - not sure why as I regularly stand up in front of hundreds of people from across the Globe and host education sessions as part of my daily job!!  I guess it's all about comfort zones and confidence  ;)

Maybe I'm beginning to get over it - you might regret opening this pandora's box  :o  :D  :D  :D

sharon  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Modine on December 05, 2008, 10:47:30 PM
I like the idea of a members only forum, and I agree with others' concerns about the 50 post requirement. There are some topics that would be best discussed out of the public view, such as how to handle difficult situations (parents who insist that you make "just one more," what to do if there's a disturbance (disruptive guest, child wets pants, etc.). It's also important to share our enthusiasm about balloon art in a way that the public can feel engaged and excited about hiring us to work at their events, and so that new or prospective balloon artists feel welcome to our community, so it would be best if we strive for balance.

Modine
http://www.laughsbymodine.com (http://www.laughsbymodine.com)
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Dillingerentertains on December 05, 2008, 11:53:57 PM
brill idea graham am i right in thinking it will be for professionals to talk about pro issues if so how about taking in to consideration things like - equity membership - public liability insurance - CRB checks  that way you can keep the open forum for posting balloon topics models etc and have a members area just for discussing pro work issues
                       DENNIS
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Martin on December 06, 2008, 07:59:13 AM
Appreciate your views Dillinger, and I do empathise with them in many ways...

However there are quite a few very active users of this board who are probably a little more than 'hobbyists' but not quite what you would call a 'pro'. Where are you going to fit us into your tiers of membership?

Depends on the objectives I guess, but if the objective is to increase membership and contribution then I don't see your version of the strategy doing it with me... it will probably just lead me to go seek a friendlier place.

Martin.
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: YvonneH on December 06, 2008, 08:39:56 AM
Could I also point out that just because an area of a forum is members only it DOES NOT MEAN NO ONE ELSE CAN SEE IT.

Another forum I am on is mainly members only (basically if you want to see anything of value you have to register and people can see you lurking because your name is listed at the bottom of the screen rather than guest) but if people google the right thing posts can and do appear in the results.  

It would be better to have certain areas of the site members only but please don't think you can say things in there that parents could stumble across - especially since quite a few of you have you stage name and general location in your posts.  You still need to make sure you do not say anything that you would not wish your customers to read  ;)
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: cashmagic on December 06, 2008, 08:42:22 AM
This has realy opened a can of worms
the hole point of the members only part is to give some where to speak open about thing you dont want others seeing not other twisters but people who might book you, things like "I dont care I am there for the money get them in get them out" Or "Why should I work for free when I am on TV"
think about how that makes us look as twister and people?
I see some people are upset by the 50 post rule then we need to come together and see what we can come up with how about a poll?
1= 50 post
2= Invite only
3= keep the hole thing on lock down and get a new password
4= keep it as it is NO members only part
5= PM Graham and he sees who you are what you doing and sees if you need to go in

I would just like to say I thank Graham he is doing a great job on the forum and dont be so hard on him, as I will put my hand up right now and SAY "this was my idea about the members only part"
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Graham Lee on December 06, 2008, 06:54:25 PM
Blimey :o  Decisions, decisions. I can see the usefullness of a seperate area away from prying eyes but as Yvonne said you could do a google search & perhaps get in to see via the back door.
I have no intention of making it a them & us situation, I have learnt loads myself from experienced twisters who've been in the game for years but I also love the excitement & enthusiasm of a newbie & the way they look upon things with eyes wide open. They approach things so much differently than from those with more experience, we can all learn from each other.
All I really want to do is to encourage the members to post a bit more with some good discussions & models being shown & then hopefully we'll get a few more active members joining as well.

So we could make the area open to all members of the forum no matter how many posts have been made Dennis :lol: I would email the password to all that ask to join in but would ask everyone that has access to this area to be active in it as well.
This might then get all the non member lurkers to join to see what's being talked about or we could just put a password (if possible) on the whole forum as it is & only leave a couple of topics on open display as it seems this would get us the same result.

Any other idea's for what to name the area if we go this way apart from Roger's "Area 51"
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: cashmagic on December 06, 2008, 07:33:50 PM
Quote from: "Graham Lee"then hopefully we'll get a few more active members joining as well.


 :o kev i think that was aimed at you you ugly bugger :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Emazdad on December 06, 2008, 07:35:05 PM
Nice idea Graeme, I'd welcome an area away from the public eye where everything can be discussed.

You wouldn't need a seperate login, just make up the new forum on Balloon Chat, but have it set as private, with access limited to only logged on members. If you want access limited to members who've contributed to the forum you need to make a group, set the forum so only that group can access it, and put all those you want to have access into that group.

You say about a google search, if you make the forum private, as the wobbly is, only logged on members can read the posts. Anyone who managed to find their way there hits the log on page. As with the committee area, only certain members have access to that.

It's all down to the settings.

Alternativly why not just make the whole of Balloon Chat privateand thus only logged on members can read and post.
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Danny the Idiot on December 06, 2008, 09:26:08 PM
"Any other idea's for what to name the area if we go this way apart from Roger's "Area 51"


 Howabout

The Climb in Balloon zone

Area 646 or 660

 :)
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Bonnie on December 06, 2008, 10:26:11 PM
If memory serves, (which means don't take what I'm about to say to the bank  :lol:  ), back before mbd2 started taking donations in order to access the instructions and chat room, things were set up so that only registered members could access the instructions.  You didn't need a password beyond the one that you had to use in order to just log onto the forum.  

Now this didn't increase the number of people willing to post, it just forced them to sign up if they wanted to see behind the curtain so to speak.  

I don't know the rules governing what can and can't be said across the big pond, but here in the states we aren't allowed to discuss actual pricing for what we charge for a party/event.  It would be considered price fixing.  :roll:  

As for being able to discuss anything and everything including a bad client or a disruptive child... I have to agree with Yvonne, "Could I also point out that just because an area of a forum is members only it DOES NOT MEAN NO ONE ELSE CAN SEE IT."  If it is posted on the web, consider it in public view. So even if this area were to made a members only area, you would still have to be careful about how you worded whatever grievance you had.  By the way, both BHq and MBD2 allow posts like these to be viewed by anyone.  While we may all want our clients to think there is never a problem, I don't think there is anything wrong with letting John Doe public know that some things just aren't cool... Like the kid that kicks you in the shins just for the heck of it or the client that rings you up 1 hour before the party and cancels.

Just my thoughts,
Bonnie, The Balloon Lady
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Emazdad on December 07, 2008, 12:28:05 AM
I must say if you did make the members area for members who have posted more than 50 times it wouldn't be very crowded, if you check the members list you'd see that out of 300+ members only around 35-40 have posted more than 50 times.

You'd be amazed how many have been members for months and have never contributed, I've only just joined so wouldn't be elegible for the members area just yet, but I still think it's a good idea, and it may just encourage those that don't post to actually join in.

In answer to your next questions, Yes I was very bored when I started checking the list, , no I can't sleep and yes I do need to get a social life :)
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Dillingerentertains on December 07, 2008, 01:24:23 AM
Quote from: MartinAppreciate your views Dillinger,[/color]
thanks for that martin it's always nice to be appreciated except they not my views they are my suggestions - food for thought - things for consideration & i quote

(if so how about taking in to consideration things like - equity membership - public liability insurance - CRB checks)  

Where are you going to fit us into your tiers of membership?
MY tiers of membership? what tires of membership did i suggest

I don't see your version of the strategy doing it with me
my version of the strategy? now I'm even more confused when did i give you my version of the strategy as i said before these are my suggestions - food for thought - things for consideration it wasn't my intention to be taken so literally

it will probably just lead me to go seek a friendlier place.
well happy hunting coz you wont find a more friendlier place than hear this is a brill forum with the most shearing people i have come across & i was just sharing my thoughts on what is a sticky subject & i don't think graham will change forum policy because of my post (or will he lol) don't think so
                                        DENNIS
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Martin on December 07, 2008, 10:11:37 AM
Dillinger... Great! Good to see we agreed with each all along and are both committed to Balloonchat remaining an inclusive and friendly place to play :)

Graham,
A couple of other ideas, which may help...

- another option (not yet mentioned I think) might be to make the whole site a subscription site, with people paying to join. As an incentive members could receive access to a wider range of instructional content in addition to that posted by members (Say pay £15 quid membership and receive content equivalent to that of an instructional CD?).

- if you did have a members only section of the site but wanted to prevent the comments being visible on Google (etc) then with the proper use of a 'Robots' file you should be able to prevent this section being crawled by the search engines.

Just ideas...

Martin.
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Graham Lee on December 08, 2008, 10:39:42 AM
Can anyone help!!!

I did notice that I could put the password into the members only area even when I was not logged into the site & view & add posts. So this dosn't seem a very secure area at the moment.

Martin, How do I add the "robots" file onto the area to make it more secure?
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: YvonneH on December 08, 2008, 12:05:15 PM
Not sure how Martin was suggesting (which is probably better than what I am about to suggest) but you can add <META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOINDEX">  to the metatags of the pages you do not wish to appear in search engines as it is basically an instruction to the search engine bots to ignore that page.

Obviously, it is not a good idea to add this tag to too many pages or the site will not be ranked very highly by Google and may not appear if people are searching for balloon forums etc.  However, it is handy for personal websites and any pages on your site which you would prefer the general public not to view.
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Martin on December 08, 2008, 12:54:54 PM
Graham,

You need to create a robots.txt file for the site. It is basically just a text file that for each page (or section of the site) allows you to specify which 'bots' it applies to and for which sections/ pages.

There are some useful instructions here (and links to other info),

http://www.google.com/support/webmaster ... swer=40360 (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=40360)

You can also get some web tools to auto-generate most of the content for you (similar to creating a sitemap). Just go to Google and search on 'robots.txt'

If you struggle I may be able to help further... when I get some time off over Xmas :)
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: cashmagic on December 08, 2008, 01:54:58 PM
well it looks to work for me i need to put a password in and tryed to hack in but couldnt
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: magicadie on December 09, 2008, 05:21:22 PM
So how do we find out the password Graham.
Is it a game to find it out, or do we need a secret handshake or something???
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Graham Lee on December 09, 2008, 05:27:33 PM
For anyone wanting to get into the members area just PM me and I'll pass on the code
Title: Re: "Members Only" area
Post by: Emazdad on December 10, 2008, 06:08:28 AM
If there's no post linit I'm interseted Graeme, however I'm willing to wait until I've done the correct amount of posts if thats the rule.

As for all the meta tag stuff, on the wobbly when I create  a new forum it asks me to tick boxes, these say who can see it, and which group can post. I take it this one doesn't have that facility.