Hi Folks,

This month I thought we could have a look at Health, Safety & Regulations. This includes but is not limited to:

CRB checks
Risk Assessments
Public Liability Insurance
Music Licenses (PRS)
Dog Licenses (ok this one is a joke!)

These kind of things.

If you perform twisting or shows of any kind for the public you must have some or all of the above.

Do you have these? Which do you have?
Does anyone know about the new replacement CRB check thing?
Do you know what a risk assessment is and how to do one for your business?
If you play music in your show do you have the rights to do so?
What do you need as a Twister? Decorator? Performer? Teacher? Merchant?


I do realise these may be dry and dull topics, however they are vital, unfortunately, in todays growing litigious world.


Thanks
Danny  

Well technically as performers etc we don't legally NEED any of the above to go out and work as a twister.  The only one that is a legal requirement is a music licence but if you don't use music whilst working then you don't need one.

PLI is to protect us should we hurt anyone but understandably corporate clients insist as it is someone lower down to pass the buck to if needed.  To a regular party parent it really would not make a whole heap of difference because they won't worry about whether you can pay if they sue you until the eventuality arises.  At present most would make their decisions to hire you based more on price than whether or not you have pli.  However, I choose to have PLI because should some unforeseeable thing happen and someone decides to sue I do not wish to be in a position where I could lose my home.  In America quite a few people perform without PLI and a leading figure in face painting openly admits they only have PLI because their corporate clients wanted it.

At present we also do not have any legal requirement to have a CRB and in most cases it is as elusive as rocking horse poo.  There has been numerous discussions on the IVA (the replacement scheme although it will still include a CRB check  :roll: ) on another forum I am on but there are some details as they pertain to face painters on the FACE website.  Not actually looked myself as I have been following the threads on the forum written by the same person so assume they say pretty much the same thing.  I personally do not think they should be necessary as I will not supervise children and will insist on adults being present at all times but if it gets me more work them I will continue to get them  

I don't have a music licence as I don't use music whilst working!  As for risk assessments I have done them and will continue to do them but I do find them an exercise in stupidity.  I mean you are basically listing all the ways someone could do themselves harm with your equipment and how you prevent that  :roll:  I know of a lady that used to do them for an outdoor activities centre she worked for daily but it still didn't stop a child running into a huge bus that was the only vehicle in the car park nor a child having an allergic reaction to kissing a cow!  I have also found that some places insist on risk assessments and then ignore them.  At one job I was expected to continue to my alloted finish time regardless of the fact that there was a queue of people and the staff were packing up the Marquee around me!  How is that safe?

Hi all,

I think most performers will be covered for public liability through Equity, as I believe most are members. As well as all the other advantages, you are automatically covered for £10 million....it is quite flattering to think you alone could cause that much damage with one balloon !!!!!!!

A disclaimer I use and display everywhere (it is even on the back of my bussiness cards) reads.......

We are concerned about your safety at all times, and therefore advise that our balloons are not handled by anyone with a latex allergy. Also please be aware that balloons can present a choking hazzard, so our balloons should never be given to children under 2 years of age, or anyone likely to put them in their mouth.

I used the wording "balloons" rather than "broken balloons" and included "or anyone likely to put them in their mouth" in the choking hazzard bit to cover older kids, drunks, or adults trying to do the poodle tail by sucking, or the balloon swallowing gag some magicians do.

Somewhere I had a risk assesement for balloon twisters. I have just had a quick look for it with no luck, but will look again, and post it. I may be useful for someone.

Ok this could be interesting! The below link is for the prs details/prices as of 2009.

Most venue's will have PRS cover but not all (more and more are are leaving it up to the person who hires the venue church halls and alike). I did know someone that worked for the PRS and will try and find out if he still dose and get clarification, as it says that it is not needed at a private function but I believe this is if the person whose function it is plays the music not if they get a professional in who then plays music. By the way if you are sitting at home preparing for a show well you are working and if you listen to the radio I believe you should pay.

Just to shake things up a bit when is it ok not to pay things like this there has been lots of talk about having use of instructions without paying would it be or not be ok to have the use of music without paying. (will put spoon away)

//http://www.prsformusic.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/PPS%20Tariffs/ML-2009-11%20Tariff.pdf


As for insurance I have never worked without it and never would. And would never pass work to anyone I did not think was insured.

I have been CRB checked and no its not perfect but I have heard of a entertainer that disappeared when the schools he worked for asked about CRB checks. I know lots of people that ask if you have one never look at them but just asking can scare some people off.

As for Risk assessments yes they are largely a waste of time, for those that think about safety. But it dose help give you a nudge in thinking about your kit and how you lay it out etc. (say using electricity outside how you will run cables protect against water etc).

I remember when pat testing first came out and venues wanted all our disco checked we thought what a waste of time but we had it done and 2 new bits of kit needed some attention. May have saved us a nasty shock (GROAN).

As for dog licence boy the light bulb has just gone on. I am going to look at a business card that is a sort of licence so when I make a dog cat car I can ask if they have a licence and it will say some thing like.

(Child's name) is licensed by (my details ) for the possession of a balloon (Dog etc) and promises to take good care of it.

Roger said

QuoteAs for dog licence boy the light bulb has just gone on. I am going to look at a business card that is a sort of licence so when I make a dog cat car I can ask if they have a licence and it will say some thing like.

(Child's name) is licensed by (my details  ) for the possession of a balloon (Dog etc) and promises to take good care of it.

I kind of had this thought when I jokingly wrote the post above. A balloon dog license. But Roger has beaten me to it. I'm glad you had a light bulb moment I like it!

 

Quote from: "phoenix"so our balloons should never be given to children under 2 years of age, or anyone likely to put them in their mouth.

On a bag of balloons it states should not be given to children under 8

Hi Graham.

I thought 2 was a little low, but it is a figure that a lot of people use. I know that is the figure Yvonne H uses.

I also think 8 is a bit high, does anyone here tell a stroppy 7 year old they are not old enough for a balloon animal :?:

As I interpreted it 8 applys to uninflated balloons, not models. I quote "Children under 8 years can choke or suffocate on uninflated or broken balloons. Adult supervision required. Keep uninflated balloons away from children"

Anyway the "anyone likely to put balloons in their mouth" should cover 8 year old kids. It also covers drunks, lunatics and members of the Royal Family !!!!!!

Got to go now to put dinner on and watch Eastenders. It's raining out, so a night in with beef in sweet chilli sauce and Albert Square

Quote from: "phoenix"Got to go now to put dinner on and watch Eastenders. It's raining out, so a night in with beef in sweet chilli sauce and Albert Square

And I thought I was sad  

Hi all.

Well i must say i have been asked so many times by parents for a balloon for their young child ages 2and up. I always agree and give the balloon to the parent and not to the child. That way i have given the balloon to an adult and it's their decision what to do with it. I also explain this to the parent every time iam in that situation.

Not had any trouble yet. 8-)

If anyone is looking to get themselves a CRB check without going through a large company then you can get "A Disclosure For Scotland" certificate which is the equivalent to a CRB in England and is recognised here and it was only £20 to obtain although I think the price went up recently.

Yep - the price has gone up, but I think it's still around £23.

I currently have Basic Disclosure (which any individual can apply for) but I have recently (today, actually!) put my application in for Enhanced Disclosure.  This is the highest level and the one that you'd need for teaching, working in a nursery etc.  I don't intend ever to work where there are only children and no adults, but I feel this is about as much security / peace of mind I can give to a parent / client.

Standard and Enhanced disclosure can still be obtained by an individual, but you have to go through an umbrella company who are already registered with Disclosure Scotland (unless you register your own company, but I think that costs about £125 - not worth it for me who is basically a one-man band).  The Disclosure Scotland website lists several companies (not just in Scotland) who can do this for you.  The umbrella company fee is usually in the region of £10 - £20 on top of the £23 for the disclosure itself.

My only gripe about it is that it gives you disclosure at a fixed point in time.  It would be really handy if there was some mechanism (maybe a password that I could expire 24 hours after giving it to a potential client perhaps) where they could check on line real-time that I am still suitably well.... suitable!

--Neil

Neil that is what the new system should do.  It will consist of a crb and real time check that people hiring you can carry out.

WARNING:  The rest of this post is my take on the new system and could be completely inaccurate!

The way I understand it is the government want a 2 tier system to protect children better.  You will have a crb check and then be listed on the ISA website unless of course you are naughty and have your name removed.  As self-employed people we will now be able to get these ourselves but whether we will need to use an umbrella body is unclear.

Anyone who works in a specified place more than once in a month or works in a regulated profession will HAVE to have an ISA and this obviously includes anyone who teaches children or does regular gig's in schools, playschemes etc.  The idea being that if one of wished to groom a child if we worked somewhere regularly that child would know where to find.

Apparently the website and your personal information will be on a password basis to which you have control, however, being cynical I cannot see this system staying unabused.  

However, I have never nor am I ever likely to be arrested let alone convicted for anything due to being such a goody two shoes so I am okay with the new system.  I also prefer the idea that you just give a prospective client a password and they see only the relevant gumpf - unlike now when a corporate client insists you have one and either never looks at it or they want to take a copy!  I will not let anyone take a copy but I will bring it along to the job so they can see it but it has far too much personal info on it to be handing it to strangers.

Like I say there is huge amounts of information on another forum I use and if Graham okay's it I will post a link.

Hi Danny

I have a rick assessment which covers the Crb/Pli/Pat/Ml/Dl.

I checked out the music licence and came to the conclusion I do not need one as BD are private events.

Also a lot of my music has been done especially for my use.

Had the PRS people cold calling me trying to give me a hard time (like they do for shops that have a radio on) saying I need a licence. I told them to go away do some research on the information they had on my business.

Regards the new replacement CRB check.

Again like the CRB check it does not apply to me but we will get loads of people that have interpreted the system wrongly saying it does.

If only all these checked were for the benefit of protecting kids rather than a tax on my business.

Fuzz

Here's an interesting one...
"Vicar bans video in church because of music copyright."
Seem you would be recording hymns.

So what about when you do a birthday party and they whip out their phone and start recording.

Are they breaking copyrights?

Fuzz

Hi All

This is interesting reading regarding how CRB checks effect entertainers.

http://www.punchandjudy.com/newbooth/vi ... f=1&t=1123